Comments on: Maintenance ECT does not produce cognitive side effects http://www.shockmd.com/2008/03/10/maintenance-ect-does-not-produce-cognitive-side-effects/ A Neurostimulating Blog Fri, 19 Mar 2010 07:14:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Jack McNeill http://www.shockmd.com/2008/03/10/maintenance-ect-does-not-produce-cognitive-side-effects/comment-page-1/#comment-7125 Jack McNeill Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:33:49 +0000 http://www.shockmd.com/2008/03/10/maintenance-ect-does-not-produce-cognitive-side-effects/#comment-7125 I was looking at an abstract of something entitled "Long-term maintenance ECT: a retrospective review of efficacy and cognitive outcome" by Russell JC, et al., of the Mayo Clinic (J ECT Mar 19, 2003). One sentence stated, "Little is known about the outcomes of long-term use (> 1 year) of maintenance ECT." As a 1972 recipient of ECT who experienced significant long-term cognitive impairment, I would think that maintenance ECT exacerbates long-term cognitive impairment. I would also assmume that the practitioners of ECT are little concerned about the question, judging from the fact that it took from 1938 until 2007---69 years---for a large scale(347 subjects) prospective study (by APA Task Force on ECT member Dr. Harold Sackeim) to be done on the effect of ECT on cognitive impairment. Dr. Sackeim found, of course, that ECT "routine(ly)" causes ong term cogntive impairment. I was looking at an abstract of something entitled “Long-term maintenance ECT: a retrospective review of efficacy and cognitive outcome” by Russell JC, et al., of the Mayo Clinic (J ECT Mar 19, 2003).

One sentence stated, “Little is known about the outcomes of long-term use (> 1 year) of maintenance ECT.” As a 1972 recipient of ECT who experienced significant long-term cognitive impairment, I would think that maintenance ECT exacerbates long-term cognitive impairment. I would also assmume that the practitioners of ECT are little concerned about the question, judging from the fact that it took from 1938 until 2007—69 years—for a large scale(347 subjects) prospective study (by APA Task Force on ECT member Dr. Harold Sackeim) to be done on the effect of ECT on cognitive impairment. Dr. Sackeim found, of course, that ECT “routine(ly)” causes ong term cogntive impairment.

]]> By: Jack McNeill http://www.shockmd.com/2008/03/10/maintenance-ect-does-not-produce-cognitive-side-effects/comment-page-1/#comment-6998 Jack McNeill Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:01:41 +0000 http://www.shockmd.com/2008/03/10/maintenance-ect-does-not-produce-cognitive-side-effects/#comment-6998 Dear Dr. Shock, I have a question. Your headline states in boldface, "Maintenance ECT does not produce cognitive side effects." Then down in paragraph 4 you state, "During the course of ECT the most important side effects(are)retrograde-and anterograde amnesia. To my opinion these cognitive side-effects do not increase and even might decrease during m-ECT. Cognitive side-effects during m-ECT are hardly studied because of small sample size and lack of control group." So if cognitive side-effects during m-ECT are hardly studied, how can you state, and without equivocation, that maintenance ECT does not produce cognitive side effects?" Oh, I get it. We just accept your opinion as a substitute for hard science. But not to worry, we've been doing that with the APA for decades. And then if somebody like Harold Sackeim comes along 69 years later and shows that maintenance ECT does routinely exacerbate long term cognitive impairment, we can always say, "Gosh, you coulda fooled me." And never forget, ECT IS SAFE AND EFFECTIVE. If you doubt it, just ask the American Psychiatric Association and its 38,000 psychiatrists. Have a good day, Dr. Shock. Dear Dr. Shock,

I have a question. Your headline states in boldface, “Maintenance ECT does not produce cognitive side effects.”

Then down in paragraph 4 you state, “During the course of ECT the most important side effects(are)retrograde-and anterograde amnesia. To my opinion these cognitive side-effects do not increase and even might decrease during m-ECT. Cognitive side-effects during m-ECT are hardly studied because of small sample size and lack of control group.”

So if cognitive side-effects during m-ECT are hardly studied, how can you state, and without equivocation, that maintenance ECT does not produce cognitive side effects?”

Oh, I get it. We just accept your opinion as a substitute for hard science.

But not to worry, we’ve been doing that with the APA for decades. And then if somebody like Harold Sackeim comes along 69 years later and shows that maintenance ECT does routinely exacerbate long term cognitive impairment, we can always say, “Gosh, you coulda fooled me.”

And never forget, ECT IS SAFE AND EFFECTIVE. If you doubt it, just ask the American Psychiatric Association and its 38,000 psychiatrists.

Have a good day, Dr. Shock.

]]> By: Aqua http://www.shockmd.com/2008/03/10/maintenance-ect-does-not-produce-cognitive-side-effects/comment-page-1/#comment-222 Aqua Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:38:00 +0000 http://www.shockmd.com/2008/03/10/maintenance-ect-does-not-produce-cognitive-side-effects/#comment-222 Hi Dr Shock,<br/>Interesting post. I am really interested in ECT and maintenance therapy as it may in the end be the only thing that helps me, but while I had a good experience before I fear the long-term outcome of having more ECT, or follow-up maintenance ECT.<br/><br/>Have you read this article:<br/>http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/staticContent/HTML/N0/l2/jpn/vol-32/issue-4/pdf/pg241.pdf<br/><br/>It suggests that people with Bipolar Disorder do have learning and cognitive deficits following ECT. Can you comment on the study and maybe post about it as I really didn't understand the whole article. I am really curious as to how much it indicates BP depression might be different in terms of memory/learning problems after ECT.<br/>Thanks,<br/>...aqua Hi Dr Shock,
Interesting post. I am really interested in ECT and maintenance therapy as it may in the end be the only thing that helps me, but while I had a good experience before I fear the long-term outcome of having more ECT, or follow-up maintenance ECT.

Have you read this article:
http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/staticContent/HTML/N0/l2/jpn/vol-32/issue-4/pdf/pg241.pdf

It suggests that people with Bipolar Disorder do have learning and cognitive deficits following ECT. Can you comment on the study and maybe post about it as I really didn’t understand the whole article. I am really curious as to how much it indicates BP depression might be different in terms of memory/learning problems after ECT.
Thanks,
…aqua

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